Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

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tordana
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Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

Post by tordana » Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:51 pm

Hey folks.

We're experimenting with plugins and I wanted to poll the community on opinions. Right now, one possibility would do the following:

1. Resize all player models to be smaller (either cs:s standing size or tf2 crouched size)
2. Disable crouching by triggering sm_teleport and displaying a visual notification whenever a player crouches.

This proposed solution would completely delete cboosting as an issue because you wouldn't be able to crouch. It would also make porting maps much simpler because not as much resizing would have to be done - it would let us assume all players are crouched size(which is generally the case anyway).

I realize that this could be super annoying for some people though, which is why I want to get feedback. Go!

It is confirmed *not possible* to simply make the crouch key do nothing, we have to override it with a teleport command.


Edit: (TheDeathly)

To clear up some of the confusion, the main reasons for this change is:

1. It changed your height and width to match CS:S sizes. This makes previous unresized maps on par with CS:S difficulty for the most part. It also means porting maps that would have required massive amounts of resizing easier.
2. It prevents cboosting entirely across every map. This is pretty big considering how much time and effort it takes to properly removing cboosting.

The reason for removing crouching is because if you are now resized down to CS:S standing, crouching would make you even smaller.

"But in CS:S you can still crouch!". Yes, you can crouch in CS:S but only in certain situations is actually helpful since strafing in the air while crouched will eat more of your speed than it does in TF2.

Please keep in mind that this is only a trial thing, if within a week the feedback is mostly negative with legitimate complaints that it of course wont be added in.
milligraham
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Re: Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

Post by milligraham » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:27 pm

I'm definitely down for resizing player models, that would be exciting to see.

I would be willing to give disabled crouch a shot. I do worry it might be off-putting for a lot of people who are so used to crouching at all times, or it might be confusing or annoying for newer/unaware players to trigger sm_teleport on accident. (just a few potential concerns I thought of). Even though I'm used to always using crouch, it wouldn't be the end of the world for me if crouching was removed.
ziddia
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Re: Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

Post by ziddia » Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:31 pm

I say go through with both the resizing and the crouch blocking, but bear in mind that players who don't read the forums won't understand why they always get teleported back to the start when they try to surf. Add a message or something whenever they try to crouch explaining the situation at least.
Hockeyfan48
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Re: Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

Post by Hockeyfan48 » Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:41 pm

I played around with the resize plugin enabled and crouch disabled the other day. It was weird at first to not have to hold crouch, but after like an hour it was fine.

My opinion is that if the only downside is that people have to get used to it, but the upsides are easier porting and removal of cboosting, then it just makes sense to go through with the plugin and removal of crouching.
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Shadow Sheep
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Re: Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

Post by Shadow Sheep » Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:45 pm

I think it would be fine as long as nothing in the map design of the maps we have involves crouching (surf_tundra bonus or surf_royal spin for example).

I also want to say that even if this doesn't turn out to be a succesfull change, I really don't mind doing the required resizement in my port. Think about about the playable side first, then the porting consequence is the way I see priorities at the moment.
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Xtra_Festive
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Re: Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

Post by Xtra_Festive » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:30 pm

This change sounds welcome in many ways and the up-sides to this are solid ones. There's only a few concerns I have.

As mentioned, players that are newer may be very confused about the teleporting and a simple message may still be missed by some. If someone is used to crouching in surf they may find themselves annoyed here with accidental resetting and all that. Regardless that's something to get used to.

Another issue is that without being able to crouch, certain situations in surf may feel strange. Sometimes you need to crouch to cover the last of a gap without hitting a floor or just to change your size intentionally to avoid something. This wouldn't be possible with the elimination of the crouched position and may cause small issues.

Overall I don't want complain about this too much. It still feels like a welcome change for more reasons than not.
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tordana
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Re: Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

Post by tordana » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:33 pm

Shadow Sheep wrote:I think it would be fine as long as nothing in the map design of the maps we have involves crouching (surf_tundra bonus or surf_royal spin for example).

I also want to say that even if this doesn't turn out to be a succesfull change, I really don't mind doing the required resizement in my port. Think about about the playable side first, then the porting consequence is the way I see priorities at the moment.
Anything that requires crouching would still be possible to complete, since this would be in effect perma-crouch. The big gameplay advantage is this makes cboosting completely impossible.

Xtra does bring up a point about how finishing stages and maps would feel a little different because of not being able to bring your legs up. I believe the camera height from eye to feet would be very similar to the current crouched distance though so shouldn't take too much adjustment.
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Shadow Sheep
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Re: Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

Post by Shadow Sheep » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:45 pm

The resize plugin can make the player as tall as an uncrouched css player, but there are a vert small part of the maps where in css, the level design sort of makes you crouch to go trough obstacles/jump 64 units tall steps. Without the ability to crouch, it will be like if we were playing in css without the ability they have to crouch, which is not that bad afterall.

If there are things impossible though due to not being able to crouch, we will very shortly know once we test this out I guess.

Also, thats by the way the only downside I would see to it, all the rest is good about it in my opinion, and making this change is a better thing in my opinion.
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asscmalt
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Re: Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

Post by asscmalt » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:00 am

I'm definitely for it, everyone pretty much surfs crouched anyways. Resizing players to crouching size and banning crouch pretty much creates a perm-crouched mode without the awkward slow walk speed and finger cramps. Also fixing cboosts is a huge deal.
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Nastybutler
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Re: Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

Post by Nastybutler » Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:26 am

Player resize, on a whole part of thinking of porting maps would be a hell of a lot easier.
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