Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

General ReSurfed talk goes here!
Donkey
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:50 am
Location: Australia

Re: Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

Post by Donkey » Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:55 am

although this fixes lots of things like cboosting and makes maps easier to port, it comes with a lot of issues.

The resizing will scramble the server with many impossible, and some extremely easy wrs. and even if you decide to not go through with it after the trial is up, then we will be left with quite a few impossible wrs to get with the normal model size.

a lot of bonuses, and maybe some stages need crouching such as the distance b2, tundra bonus and so on.

all the maps that were resized for tf2 are now even easier, the royal spin with the update is bordering t3 imo.

anything that is related to bhopping is much harder.

it could also stop new players from joining the server because they get teleported when they crouch and may not realise why. so they might just leave and go to another server or csgo/css instead if they are interested in learning to surf.
User avatar
Xtra_Festive
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:30 pm

Re: Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

Post by Xtra_Festive » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:22 am

I have to agree in that it can solve many things, and also that it has many issues. At the moment I'm rather conflicted because I'm seeing this from two opposite sides.

One problem that is getting to me though is mapping. The resize plugin is (obviously) changing the sizes of the player model and that includes things like viewheight and dimensions. With this change, testing my own maps seems more inaccurate compared to the experience I'd find in the official testing server. If I were to make a map tailored for the new size, other servers outside of Resurfed may have problems with the sizes of the map.

I'm not going to blow anything out of proportion here but this plugin is definitely causing me distress for certain aspects. As Donkey mentioned, the royal spin is literally bordering on T3 instead of T5 because of this change. That alone signals that something is off with this. I feel like the change to include this plugin came up out of nowhere as one day it was only in the VIP server and the next day it was everywhere without any large or official announcement. I know this change has been planned for a trial for a while, but any kind of notification that it was upcoming and what to expect would have been nice.

I'm not suggesting that we scrap this idea entirely, but I feel that it needs to be thought about more and tailored more to work properly. As it stands, there are just as many problems as bugs we fixed.
Psychonian
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:30 am
Location: Rez's Basement

Re: Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

Post by Psychonian » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:29 pm

This is a *horrible* idea. First of all this is a 3 year habit that I have to break. I have to consciously think about where my hands are if I want to surf, and that is a huge problem. Legends g1 is near impossible, bhop bonuses are fucked up, prestrafe is kinda strange now, if we wanted this to be like CSS then we would be able to crouch down to 50 units like they can - if we don't adjust size for that, some maps will be absolutely impossible to complete. I've surfed on 4 different keyboards, from a shitty logitech keyboard that came with my computer to the blackwidow that I'm using right now, and none of them have given me *ANY* issue with holding crouch, it is very easy. Cboosting is a nonissue. Everyone keeps going on about bearz this, bearz that. Well bearz got banned and all his times deleted. I see no issue there. I don't know if its the case but even strafing in air feels different. PLEASE get rid of this - I can't surf with it on.
capybara15984
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:10 pm

Re: Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

Post by capybara15984 » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:48 pm

Psychonian wrote:prestrafe is kinda strange now
Prestrafe literally doesn't exist in tf2, how could it be strange now when it never existed before?
Plasma Lemon
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:22 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington

Re: Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

Post by Plasma Lemon » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:53 pm

asscmalt wrote:
C1cat wrote:
I also don't understand why resizing is a thing. If the intent with resizing is just to make the TF2 player models more like CSS, then I'd be seriously confused and almost disappointed. This server is in TF2, for TF2, not CSS. Changing the TF2 models to CSS-Sized models just makes us lose something that makes us different. I honestly have pride in surfing in TF2 vs CSS/CS:GO/ect...
Theres a decent amount of reasons why resized is better. If you want to get a decent time, you generally always have to hold crouch. I have no idea how people do this without developing carpal tunnel. This change prevents that, and makes surfing a less literally painful game to play. Also it fixes cboosting, which is a pretty big deal. Having maps be easier to port is a plus / no resizing needed. If you unbind crouch ( just do something like bind f1 "unbind ctrl"; bind f2 "bind ctrl +duck" ), it takes under 30 minutes to get used to.

I actually prefer the floatyish feel of tf surf too, but that's just a general physics thing, not really related to player models.
First thing I did when I was learning surf and heard that you're supposed to be crouched most of the time was google to see if there was a way to toggle crouch on and off. Even if there wasn't, I would have just made an autohotkey script to toggle holding down my crouch button.
Last edited by Plasma Lemon on Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Plasma Lemon
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:22 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington

Re: Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

Post by Plasma Lemon » Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:07 pm

capybara15984 wrote:
Psychonian wrote:prestrafe is kinda strange now
Prestrafe literally doesn't exist in tf2, how could it be strange now when it never existed before?
So you don't have to spend a second walking before you reach your maximum walking speed on TF2 like you do on CSS.

I'm pretty sure pyschonian is referring to strafing you do after you jump, and before you hit leave the edge of the starting platform and trigger the timer to start.

Which is very much a real thing in TF2, as well as CSS. Though it is a lot easier to do in TF2 considering how movement is.

Strafing that takes place before you go off the edge of the starting platform/before you trigger the timer to start. In other words, prestrafing.

Edit: Oops, why did I think smileytopin had said that. It was psychonian.
Last edited by Plasma Lemon on Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
capybara15984
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:10 pm

Re: Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

Post by capybara15984 » Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:42 pm

On CSS you can strafe on the ground to gain more speed than just walking. That is the only thing I've considered prestrafing, and definitely does not exist in tf2. I've also heard Trofle say prestrafe doesn't exist in CSGO and that is what he was referring to, considering you definitely can just jump and strafe before the timer starts in any game.
hbc
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:09 pm

Re: Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

Post by hbc » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:10 pm

a solid idea and if it happened i think i would be ok with it, but i really like spamming crouch while i'm surfing. for me, since i don't actually play the game i could always just unbind crouch but there's something so satisfying about spamming crouch during the long periods between ramps.
Plasma Lemon
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:22 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington

Re: Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

Post by Plasma Lemon » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:19 am

capybara15984 wrote:
Psychonian wrote:prestrafe is kinda strange now
Prestrafe literally doesn't exist in tf2, how could it be strange now when it never existed before?
capybara15984 wrote:On CSS you can strafe on the ground to gain more speed than just walking. That is the only thing I've considered prestrafing, and definitely does not exist in tf2. I've also heard Trofle say prestrafe doesn't exist in CSGO and that is what he was referring to, considering you definitely can just jump and strafe before the timer starts in any game.
Lol which do you think is more likely

1. Psychonian is delusional and has somehow acquired a false memory/perception of TF2 surfing. I mean, this must be the case, if he believes the prestrafing mechanic from CSS also exists on TF2, even though it most certainly does not! And not only does he believe that. He believes it after having surfed on TF2 far more than enough to know otherwise. It would be like living in a house for a year, and then waking up to the same house, and being certain that the front door and back doors have switched spots overnight, and that it's all a prank, pulled on you by the 27 invisible leprechauns who have been living in your house, and you call the police and tell them about the leprechauns and ask if the police can come and force the leprechauns to switch the doors back to their correct spots. I am concerned for Psychonian's mental health, someone ought to call his mother and tell her to take him to get tested and treated.

2. What Psychonian is referring to with the word "prestrafing" is different from what you consider "prestrafing" to be. Maybe Psychonian knew about how walking works in CSS, and he knew that "prestrafing" from CSS doesn't exist in TF2, but he didn't feel like taking the time to put together the proper words in the proper order to successfully get his message across while remaining technically correct. Well that would have been his bad then. He should have known that someone here would point out the flaws in his comment

If you have a different idea of what "prestrafing" is than what Psychonian's idea of prestrafing is, maybe you should try asking for some clarification from him about what he means. That will help you understand him. What you originally said in reply to his comment isn't going to help you understand him. Which would be fine, if you at least said something that would help HIM understand YOU. But you didn't. If you're not gonna try to understand others, and you're not gonna try to help them understand you, then what exactly are you doing?
TheDeathly
Posts: 214
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:04 pm

Re: Feedback wanted: Resizing/fixing cboosting plugins

Post by TheDeathly » Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:36 am

Donkey wrote: The resizing will scramble the server with many impossible, and some extremely easy wrs. and even if you decide to not go through with it after the trial is up, then we will be left with quite a few impossible wrs to get with the normal model size.
Worst case we have daily backups and could roll back the database. I also feel like there isn't going to be too many that would be impossible. Perhaps the recent royal records that were set.

While i haven't heard any complaints directly, the logistics of fixing all the times that wouldn't be possible without crouching is a lot of work. Time that i don't have. It would almost be easier to start over with a fresh database which of course no one wants. Crouching zones could be added in as a thing, but that's quite a bit of work as well.

Overall I do think the plugin is better, i think it's sort of hard to start off with it this late into the game. I'll take it off the servers in the next day or so. It was an interesting test.

If anybody is positive a certain record isn't possible anymore let me know.
Post Reply