True, and then I guess I misunderstood your point. Adding them to !hop makes sense especially on the aussie surf servers. I just didn't want to bring all the servers under one name (which wouldn't even make sense because iT was owned all by one person, and these aren't.Shadow Sheep wrote:Hey! Tordana answered! Amazing! I almost lost hope to be honest!
I am joking, I am not happy at all because of what you said about these suggestions:
2. You don't have to rebrand anyone though. If both of the people of our two community are willing to collaborate (haven't seen anyone against so far), then I don't see why it would be a bad thing to become one same and bigger community. Two jumping community don't have to be rivals.
4. Then please tell him you new plan for the resurfed servers so he can adapt to it.
I did miss that. I actually can't see why it wouldn't work but I will check with malt because it's always scary to make sweeping changes to a database.
7. Maybe you did not see it because it was a reply to malt. But I was asking if you couldn't just go in the database, take all the destinations entities and increase their Z coordinates by 4 units to fix all the problems? That should fix it once for all.
8-9. Keep these features in mind if you plan to make the timer plugin evolve in the future so it can become compatible.
I thought it was general consensus of the community that cboosting was a bad thing? I'm not aware of anyone that actually wants cboosting everywhere. If that's true, why split the categories?
11. If you think about it tordana, what we currently have is a crouchbosted timer category since the beginning. In order to make it fair for everyone, we would have to create a completly unrelated surfing category reserved for not crouchboosted and not telehopped times. That way, people surfing not crouchboosted and not telehopped can focus on surfing like they used to, while people who want to crouchboost can exploit triggers as much as they want without feeling bad about it because its perfectly fair since its the same category they are competing in.
In speedrunning in general, when there is a major trick which makes a very noticeable difference in the way the game gets completed, speedrunners create 2 categories: one including the new trick and an other old-school playing the game as before. Each category has his own rules and there is no confusion between which is faster than the other. For example, if you come back to the first page of this topic and see the TAS of super mario 64, a major trick used is a Backward Longjump Trick using the fact that mario's can gain speed by jumping backward on slopes and that mario's backward speed isn't limited. There is a category with, and a category without, which is the 70 stars TAS run of the game.
This distinction allows players to focus on different aspect on speedrunning the game, and the exact reason you are not allowing it is because they are in the same category.
So unless you have something personal in particular (which in no way must influence your admin behavior) against cboosting, you should now at least understand that spliting in 2 categories solves the problem and that the database for registered times does not take that much space anyway (less than 50 MB according to Gc).
There are people that want HSW in particular, but they are a very small minority.
12. We have spoken about that already with malt and I personnaly think that only Normal, Crouch-boosted categories are necessary.
That may not be useful, actually. I've spoken to Kurt a bit about ToTH surf and it's going to be a different format this year because they had feedback about it being too confusing for non-surfers to follow, so it's likely going to be one person at a time speedrunning maps. Possibly with various challenges (low FOV, other classes, etc. etc.). That's an entirely different topic of discussion though.
13. I highly recommend to get this feature ready before tip of the hat 2015.
Don't get me wrong I like your idea. But if we can't agree on 1 tier value right now, the odds of people agreeing on 4 is pretty much zero. Plus - high levels of coding as well as manual work involved. Question though: if malt gets this added would you Sheep be willing to make the initial pass of adding the extra tier variables to each existing map?
14. The more subjective term you use to describe something, the more precise anyone can see it. I really think these parameter will allow any player to know if a map is hard and why. Or you can just assume that tiers are subjective and remove them as well.
Some amount of quality control is required. There is more than one map that I have rejected from the servers. People may not agree on my decisions but I think you can see we can't have just every single map named surf_anything if it's like one straight ramp for 5 minutes. life_of_duck doesn't meet my quality requirements. With that said, what's done is done and it's on the timer because of Rob adding it on Aus, so it probably should be put onto NA/EU too.
16. "Duck not the list, because fuck that map." This is not a valid argument. You have to consider that you are the admin of a community of soon 30 000 players, and that its because you personally think that a map is bad that no one wants to play it. And as far as I am noticing, you are not a regular player anymore, meaning that if this map only annoys you, you have no reason to add it since you never play on this server. By the time I am speaking, this map currently counts in the completion rate of this server, which means its official in the timer. So the solution is to add this map to both easy servers. What allows you to say that this artistic map creation is bad? Isn't that subjective too? Why allowing surf_hurrr then? Why allowing surf_froots? Can you realize how absurd the decisions you are taking appear to this whole community?
The map is all sorts of weird. Christmas loaded perfectly fine for me on local server. It loaded on resurfed. I added timer triggers, reloaded the map, and it crashed. Deleted the triggers, reloaded the map, still crashed.
17. Today, I wanted to see what was wrong with surf_christmas. I downloaded it and it crashes my game. Which means that this is not the timer's fault if it crashes it. I decompiled the map to see what was wrong, then compiled it again because I had nothing interesting to do, and it was working fine. So I guess this map could be on the server without too much work to do on it. Kelao has a more advanced version than the one hosted here, so I think I will leave him the responsibility to fix the port.
You're still the only person that's ever complained to me about it. But see Epi's post.
20. Okay, lets do some hypnosis to enlarge your tunnel vision tordana. Ready?
you troll me...you troll me...you troll me......the message is obsolete...the message is obsolete.......YOU ARE LYING TO 30 000 PLAYERS TORDANA
Do you even realize what is happening since 2 years? All these people, who think that trading is a bannable offense... How can you even feel comfortable doing that every 5 minutes to everyone? There is nowhere where you can exactly see what is a bannable offense and what is not, so why this? You said "working on these", but do you even plan to change it? A joke is fun 10 minutes at most, you can't be that negligent to leave this message for one and half year just as a joke, there is no way on earth you could do that. So why? You are reading this through my account, but I am speaking for all the players right now: Why would you lie to them? Can't you even put a bind saying that crafting items is a bannable offense while we are at it?
I really hope you will change it.
OK you have a point there. However, my counterpoint would be that fixing the -0/+0 bug would be more relevant, so that if you can't see the extra digits at least it will show -00:00.00 if you beat WR and +00:00.00 if you didn't.
22. incredibly useful unfortunately. Look:
Timer | Map Record by Shadow Sheep 00:30.98 -00:00.00 PR -00:00.01 Timer | Ranked 2/999 for The Map
Who won? Who lost? Wouldn't these last digits be handy in this case to see what happened? All I am asking for is a command to see what all the digit are for one requested time. Its not a matter of if the last digits mean anything. Is the timer even 0.1 second accurate? You never know. No one would be forced to use that feature either. No one will complain. What would be wrong with adding it? If we later have a TAS plugin, maybe it would be useful to see these numbers for some comparison, even though these numbers are random. They exist, and there are situations where you need to see them.
I'm not sure what mute you are talking about. Is there a server command to mute individual players? Because I didn't add that, if it exists (I've never used it, nor looked for it) it's built into sourcemod. If you're talking about hiding all chat that's a completely different thing. And muting specific people through IRC is *possible* but note it has technical limitations - it cannot work off steamID but has to work off name. So if the person in the other server changes their name you will have to mute them again.
26. If you can just mute everyone through the menu, then why did you add this feature to the server? its not even hard to make since many other server have plugins like this to mute someone in particular.
And if even you don't find it useful to push it further inside the server, then please focus on the irc side. There are many times when you just want to mute somebody in particular through IRC, but you can without turning off the chat entirely, just because of one guy. So please make for the player a thing which allows only some people to pass through irc and not some other with a command.
The primary thing is letting you see exactly where your head and feet are. Obviously you get a feel for that just from playing the game, but for example the shortcut on s3(4? I forget) of surf_beginner gets easier with thirdperson. On another note, spins do weird things to thirdperson camera if I'm not mistaken. I'm fully aware both of these reasons are a bit weak, perhaps my best reason against it that I hadn't mentioned before is that any plugin allowing thirdperson requires sketchy sv_cheats-simulating stuff that always seems like a potential security hole to me.
30. "This actually makes a lot of things significantly easier". You keep saying this without any example. I have completed 99.90% of the maps, and there is no map or stage where thirdperson would have helped me to surf better. The only thing where I see third person helping is when you want to kill people coming around a corner without peeking out. So please give me examples where third person unbalances surfing so i can understand your point of view.
This actually ties into the !ve discussion. If you can rtv to a map immediately after changing off of it, you can bypass the increased !ve requirements by having infinite !ve with only 50% of the players to trigger rtv and vote for the map.
33. "Maybe not 0 but we'll see." I insist on dropping the nomination cooldown to 0. If people want to change for a map, then regret, there is no reason for them to have to rock the vote 3 maps in a row in order to play the map they were on again. If a map gets played, its 100% the players fault. So please remove this "security" to allow players full control on what map is on the server.
When you're on a map for a long period of time, you think everyone in the community wants to be on the map because they keep !veing it. That, however, is a logical fallacy. You have no idea how many people do NOT want to be on that map, and are simply not playing on the server because of it. Imagine the case where 2 people infinitely keep extending a map that nobody else likes. You could have 20 other people that look at the server list, see that map is on, maybe join and try to change it, fail to change it, and leave again.
34. If you ever consider re-installing team fortress 2 one day, come to a server, say you are the Admin, then ask everyone on the server to type in the chat precisely "I am a big champion". You will soon realize that you cannot technically have 24 players paying attention to what is happening in the chat and that 100% is not possible unless you are less than 5 on the server and connected less than 5 minutes ago.
So now, second question I want to ask you again because you never answered me: Why do you think that preventing people from playing a map longer is a good idea? The only people on earth which should be telling you to stop playing are your parents because its 1 am. Not the server. So please give me arguments because no one wants that (except TeMP who came out of nowhere to reply on this post even though he is fully moved to ksf, so not playing here and not concerned).
I disagree here, people are more likely to spam if surprised by it I think. Regardless, I think a possible compromise here is to make actual extend votes into a donator feature and leave !ve as is.
36. This is the exact reason why I did put the No option on 1 so its not cheated easily. You are here assuming that this community is stupid and cannot read what is written in the vote and in the chat. People will spam if the vote comes in a scheduled moment, but not if it comes by surprise to the player.
This is also the solution to all our trouble with knowing who wants to extend and who wants to not. After a vote like this, you instantly know who does not want to extend and who does not want to keep playing the map. So what you should do it adding this, and see if people complain. If they do because its too effective and that its should be as obscure as before with no announcement saying in the chat to newer people that rtv and !ve are a thing, then fine put it back as before. But at least give it a try. No one is against this if its not you.
C fixes everything by itself. If a save is bad it won't get used and will disappear. If a player is spamming, none of them are getting used and he'll just overwrite his own spam.
39. But why not using a, b, c, d and e all at once? Do you really want to allow people to spam the sm_sl bind to delete all the current saves on the server by removing them as they are older? Do you also really want to not allow people to regret the saves they have done? Do you really want to not increase the number of saves available for 32 players? Its your responsibility to do what is the best for the community.
I'll pass them along, but you have to understand that we are not the primary focus of the plugin. AI is developing it specifically for Jump servers, and spun off a version to work with surf because he thought it would be fun. We're secondary priority for him, and he does all of it in free time around his day job. I can pass suggestions to him but can't force him to work on it (same goes for Malt's timer stuff, though malt has more of an interest in resurfed than AI does).
41. But do you let him work alone with his plugin? Will he ever hear about the suggestions I have for him? How can we contact him?
43. I just wanted to be sure. Too bad though.
I am joking tordana, I am not angry! All the points I did not talk about were points I do agree with you and am happy that you take care of them.
I am just so revolted that so many people want something that could be provided with some effort, and you are just not giving them. You are are taking some decisions without giving understandable reasoning behind them (like third person, surf_life_of_duck, map extension and voting) and you don't give the community that plays the opportunity to collaborate with you in order to take together the best resolutions. So let this thread change this!
I am expecting you tordana to answer in a reasonable delay since this message is directly addressed to you.
Oh final note - I'm going out of town tomorrow morning and will not have access to my computer again until Tuesday. I can still read forums but don't expect any long-winded replies or any server fixes from me until then.