Move classics to intermediate surf.

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ActuallyImJerome
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Move classics to intermediate surf.

Post by ActuallyImJerome » Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:29 am

Going to keep this thread short.

Surf_classics should be moved to intermediate surf.

Classics is way harder than all the other maps on beginner surf. Newer surfers may find this map too long/too hard so they will rtv mesa or aircontrol or another easy map, which makes it basically impossible to beat the map or get a pr.

Surf_classic is aimed more at an intermediate tier or surfers, so if it was moved to intermediate, the problem would be fixed.

I don't see why we should move maps like surf_life_of_duck or surf_legends into intermediate and keep classics in easy. Imo, classics is of the same tier if not harder than the two maps I just mentioned.

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Yoshi678
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Re: Move classics to intermediate surf.

Post by Yoshi678 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:58 pm

Yeah, I honestly share alot of this guy's opinions. I think Classics is too long for new players to consider worthwhile, and getting a PR in one go is a damn nightmare.
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ActuallyImJerome
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Re: Move classics to intermediate surf.

Post by ActuallyImJerome » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:39 pm

Yoshi678 wrote:Yeah, I honestly share alot of this guy's opinions. I think Classics is too long for new players to consider worthwhile, and getting a PR in one go is a damn nightmare.
Thats not counting that easy maps like life_of_duck are in intermediate, and classics' s8 is harder than the whole life of duck map.
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Shadow Sheep
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Re: Move classics to intermediate surf.

Post by Shadow Sheep » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:41 am

I do agree. I actually suggested a few months ago to move some maps from easy server to intermediate because they were too hard, and there were borderline maps that it was hard for me to have a decision on. These maps were surf_classics, surf_lux and surf_nexus. My argument to keep them on the easy server was that the start of these maps was easy very beginner friendly, meaning that they would still allow the new comers to quantify and get encouraged by the progress they make at surfing.

Now that the biggest trouble maker maps are out of the way, and that some times has passed, its easier to see that classics, lux, nexus, but also surf_calycate2 are too hard for people to enjoy it. An audience that can complete these maps would enjoy them better than an audience that get stuck at 30% through it.

I also would like to ask again to switch the advanced surf_fast_fix, surf_cyanide and surf_element_beta to the intermediate server, as well as putting surf_glass5, surf_goat, surf_rustic_v2 and surf_vale2 to the advanced server.
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Insomnia
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Re: Move classics to intermediate surf.

Post by Insomnia » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:54 pm

My worries with doing all this map switching to the intermediate servers is that it would severely undermine the learning curve that most beginner players used to experience. I totally agree with surf_classics being moved, but I'm really not very sure about the other ones as of right now. There's not going to be any real escalation of difficulty on the beginner servers anymore.
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Shadow Sheep
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Re: Move classics to intermediate surf.

Post by Shadow Sheep » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:13 pm

Insomnia wrote:it would severely undermine the learning curve that most beginner players used to experience
Yeah, I myself was a skillsurf beginner on surf_it and suffered a lot when learning how to surf because of the difference there were between the difficulty of maps on the beginner server. If we compare that time to today, we today have like the paradise server map rotation. But there is a way to make surfing even more accessible to everyone who gets starting with surfing, then I think its the right thing to do.

Everywhere on resurfed, the beginner server is recommended to the new comers as a server that runs maps for their skill. This means that all the maps on these servers should be a potential someone's first map. The problem of surf_lux and surf_calycate2 is that they require you to use the ramps like a tier 2 surfer would in order to only reach checkpoint 1. They are also linear, meaning that any progress you do on these map is negated by a fail, making it really hard for a beginner that doesn't use /sl and /tl to even have the chance to come back and get through the part he can't pass.

surf_nexus is staged, but from stage 4 requires you to land perfectly on flat ramps in order to be able to make it to the next stage, which beginners have too much trouble doing, despite all the help I tried to give them.

Thats the reasons why I think these maps could be moved (please don't forget surf_fast_fix, surf_cyanide and surf_element_beta; surf_glass5, surf_goat, surf_rustic_v2 and surf_vale2).

Worst thing that can happen is that the map are being missed, and so moved back to the easy server.

tl;dr: My opinion is that if a map requires prior skillsuring knowledge and experience in order to have a chance to reach half of the map, then its probably more suited for an intermediate audience.
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Insomnia
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Re: Move classics to intermediate surf.

Post by Insomnia » Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:54 pm

I still think that the learning curve on the beginner server is almost entirely nonexistent at this point. There needs to be some kind of difficulty somewhere, right? It's kinda biased to assume that all of the players on that server are exclusively new to the game.
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ActuallyImJerome
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Re: Move classics to intermediate surf.

Post by ActuallyImJerome » Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:07 pm

Insomnia wrote:I still think that the learning curve on the beginner server is almost entirely nonexistent at this point. There needs to be some kind of difficulty somewhere, right? It's kinda biased to assume that all of the players on that server are exclusively new to the game.
The problem is not that there's a difficulty curve. The problem is that whenever this map goes on, there is always a clique of newcomers who will rtv the map because they find it too hard, which makes it basically impossible to beat the map or get a pr. I'm personally able to finish this map, but because of people always spamming rtv and not wanting to extend the map, I haven't beat it yet on ReSurfed.
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